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Interview
with
James McGreevey
former Governor
of New Jersey
by
Denny Meyer
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"~the inherent deception of Don't Ask Don't
Tell:
you can continue to appear straight and act
straight, but
once you live or show your truth there are negative
consequences. We value appearances over the truth;
we value form over substance; we value societal
norms over integrity." - James McGreevey |
In
person, James McGreevey is gregariously congenial,
charming and strikingly genuine. Going to
meet a man who fell from grace, one wonders how he
might be; he's not like anything you would
expect. There is no egotism and no
shame. He is a proud gay man, a Gay American
-in his words, still glowing from the incredible
personal freedom of being newly openly out.
This is a man with nothing left to hide, his
deepest secret having been revealed on the evening
news around the world. His absolute joy in
being totally honest is what draws you to him; it
is what seems to be his way of having risen from
the ashes, just being honest.
Gay Military
Times: When you gave a speech at Stonewall
Democrats NY, recently, there was the sense that
you savor being open and totally honest as
a gay person; is that accurate?
James
McGreevey: Its also trying to live that truth
and in living that truth - trying to contribute to making
America more tolerant to that
truth. Truthfulness is what Americans espouse;
(e.g.) George Washington chopping the cherry tree.
But. unfortunately there is a culture of
deception
within our political class. Bob Woodward captured
this essence in his book (Plan of Attack), which narrates the
deception by the administration with regard to the
Iraq war trying to create a false linkage to 911.
Another example
is the inherent deception of Don't Ask Don't Tell:
you can continue to appear straight and act
straight, but
once you live or show your truth there are negative
consequences. We value appearances over the truth;
we value form over substance; we value societal
norms over integrity.
GMS: At
Stonewall, I had asked you how you felt,
personally, when Ted Haggard was
exposed. You said, "Very
sad." Could you elaborate on that, in
the sense of how it reminded you of how you felt
at the time that your own homosexuality was first
exposed to the public?
JM: Rev.
Haggard's case is so complicated by virtue of his
theology and his
historic position with regards to gays.
Andrew Sullivan, in The Conservative Soul, thoughtfully narrates how and
why fundamentalists take such vitriolic positions
against gays. Fundamentalism, by its nature, does not
believe in debate. Fundamentalism believes in the unerring
word of the Bible as the boilerplate to determine
all human actions. So, it's unlike other
Christian traditions, which encourage reflection and
discernment. Fundamentalism claims to have every answer to
every question. And, therefore, Rev. Haggard has
created a false choice for himself: to accept his
theology or to accept his sexuality; a horrific
and false choice. From my limited vantage
point, it's not God's truth. See Faith
in America which seeks to battle
religious faith bigotry. His theology is unfortunately
replicated through large swaths of this nation.
GMS: Could
you explain how you and Ted Haggard are quite
different from each other? The news media
have speculated a great deal about each of
you. While Ted Haggard expresses public
shame, perhaps due to his political and religious
beliefs, from your speeches, you appear to have
been reborn as being dedicated to doing good for
gay freedom.
JM: It's also that, over the years, we
were able to pass Domestic Partnership in New Jersey; and we also passed the toughest
anti-bullying bill in the United States, which includes sexual orientation
-to
protect LGBT youth, and to hold school administrators
responsible to protect those children in the classroom
and school environment. While I was fearful of being
discovered or Outed, I had an inherent sympathy with
the gay community from a distance.
GMS: What
are you doing these days?
JM:
I'm working
with 'Faith In America,' and volunteering with
other worthwhile organizations. I'm focusing on
LGBT youth, working professionally with
education; and I'm working with Kean University in
New Jersey to develop a university
campus China.
GMS: Where do you see
yourself going?
JM: Doing
advocacy with particular focus on LGBT youth so that
they make the right decisions and hopefully have
more resources available to them than I had.
I
would like to see an America where I'm the last to
have to choose between one's heart and a career,
whether it's in the armed forces, political office,
or private employment; the
importance is for next generation of LGBT youth to be
able to
proudly identify their sexuality as being ordinary and
accepted and affirmed.
GMS: You
had contacted Military Equality Alliance (MEA)
asking what you might do for our cause. What
is your interest?
JM: My
father served as a drill instructor in the USMC,
I'm named
after his brother who died in Iwo Jima; and one of my
dearest friends served in Iraq and is a decorated
soldier who is gay and knows the
limitations of continuing to live a false
life.
GMS: The Gay
Military Signal is dedicated to the repeal of
Don't Ask Don't Tell. Could you speak about
how you see your own having been in the closet as
a prominent politician, compared with ordinary
Americans serving their nation, being required by
law to hide their homosexuality.
JM: I think its an
absurdity. 'Don't Ask Don't Tell' is morally wrong;
within the words themselves, it asks gay military personnel to
engage in deception; (i.e.) uniform deception, no pun
intended. It's no way to recognize the number
of
armed services that have begun the process of being
gay inclusive. Its unfortunate, because the
United States has
always led the world in human rights and civil
liberties; it is taking a distant back step.
GMS: From
your own experiences, could you describe how you
see ordinary American service members being able to
function as openly out gay people?
JM:
The importance is of living our truth
and not perpetuating this false warped
reality. Life ought to be that much more simple and honest
and transparent, being who we are, simply. I think
this is critically important because the
contribution
of gay people in our armed forces has been exemplary.
Its not only changing the law, which is important for
America, for the best and brightest to be able to
serve, for America and for the culture there is a
higher standard for the military; and 'Don't Ask
Don't Tell' says gays are less
than or not as good as others. It's an implicit value
statement which needs to be redressed.
SoulForce
and their Executive Director Jeff Lutes, and Jake
Reitan, have been a phenomenally
constructive force on this issue by having young
gay people apply and work through the admissions
process and then unfortunately be rejected due to
their sexuality. SoulForce has brought a
youthful energy and activism to the issue, and has
added an effective element to the pubic policy
debate by demonstrating the stupidity of the
policy. In addition to all the veterans who
have been so outspoken, David Mixner has helped
thousands in a humane and loving way.
GMS: What
current public
policy issues would you like to
talk about?
JM:
Federal anti-bullying legislation is so very
critical. GLSN and HRC have
shown great leadership on this issue, to protect children and
LGBT youth throughout the country. The
entire country does
not look like New Jersey or California. Why is youth so important
to me? It
goes to my heart, my feeling, that so many gay
youth across America suffer the pain of loneliness
and
ostracism. I still feel all that as if it
were yesterday (from my own experience as a
youth).
Anti-bullying legislation is important, also, as
it relates to gay teen suicide, which has a rate
three times higher than that of straight teens.
I'm also still focusing on education for
children, early literacy, and childhood hunger;
fourteen million American children go to bed
hungry; most of those children living in poverty are
under the age of five.
GMS:
How
can you now best represent the gay community in the
democratic political process? How can you best help to
improve the process in the sense of selection of
candidates, particularly those who are gay?
JM: I
think that great organizations, such as the
Victory Fund, have a tremendous
record of supporting gay candidates, as do grass roots
activists. I think 'Faith In America', fosters the notion
that being gay is intrinsic and it is letting
straight Americans know that.
GMS: Now
that you love having your life back, as you have
put it, do you see any
future time running for office again, now
with what you have to offer as an openly gay man?
JM: I'm not
running for office. Advocacy is cleaner and more
natural for me. Having served in elective
office was a privilege. Now, I want to be closer to earth
and issues as an advocate.
James
McGreevey is the author of The Confession,
published by Harper Collins.
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